Once again you see that Steve is claiming that the larger context disproves the Trinitarian reading but the exact opposite is true.
If we start with the earlier verses where angels are told to worship the Son. Yet only God is to be worshipped, indicating that the Son is God.
Then still contrasting the Son with the angels, these verses talk about Christ’s throne lasting forever and God anointing Christ above everything.
A clear contrast is seen between verses 6 and 7 and these verses; angels serve God, but Christ is on the throne. These verses are quoted from the Old Testament (Psalm 45:6-7) and refer to the triumph of Jesus as King; Christ's throne and rule will be established forever and ever. But of the Son He Says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom" (v 8).
This is one of the clearest statements of the Son being called God, proof of Christ's divinity and eternal status as the second person of the Trinity. Christ will rule over His kingdom with righteousness.
"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness" (v 9) refers to Christ's obedience on earth which made Him an inheritor of all.
"Therefore God, your God, has anointed You. With the oil of gladness above your companions (v 9)."
Because of Christ's obedience, He is anointed with the oil of gladness above His companions. As we will see throughout Hebrews, Christ's companions are fellow humans who are obedient. These faithful servants will be inheritors with Him, but Jesus is above all.
Christ obtained His inheritance, rule, and joy due to His life of righteousness of obedience; the same will be true of His companions. There is no joy greater than pleasing our Creator. The Greek word for companions is "metochous," from the root word "metochos." "Metochos" is an important word in Hebrews, used throughout (Hebrews 3:1, 3:14, 6:4). It means to be a participator, a sharer, or a business partner; the companions of Christ are those who share in His reward because of faithful obedience to Him in this life. If we share in His walk of obedience, then He will reward us by sharing with us His inheritance (the earth).
No one is worshipping Jesus because he’s God. You are inferring this. Many people are worshipped in scripture but not because they are God.
I pointed out his reign is from a time going forward. Did you read the post or just smash out a defensive reply based on conjecture and dogma?
Logic is not present in your defence, how is Jesus God if he has the same God we all do. You live in a world of contradiction of tradition’s making and seem unable to recognise the false doctrine you defend.
The doctrine of the perspicuity of scripture doesn’t mean that everything in scripture is easy to understand. Even the Apostle
Peter says of Paul’s writings that some if the things are hard to understand.
The main things in scripture, those things needed for salvation are simple and plain so that even s child can understand that a holy God exists, we are sinners unworthy to face such a holy God and therefore need a Savior who can cover us with His righteousness.
I take the promise from Jesus to the thief on the cross that “today you will be with me in paradise” as saying that he will be saved. I can show from their short exchange that the thief believed in the Jewish God, YHWH. He knew he was a sinner in need of a Savior. He expressed faith that Jesus was that Savior, the Son of God, who could intervene on his behalf. But I can’t show that the thief knew anything about the virgin birth, the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union or a host of other doctrines but his ignorance doesn’t make those doctrines incorrect.
Neither does your lack of education in theology, hermeneutics and church history make the doctrines you oppose incorrect. But that lack of education is very relevant when you are making claims about what a Greek or Hebrew word means in context (which would require an understanding of Greek and Hebrew grammar).
Strong’s Concordance is a good entry level took but don’t confuse being able to read Strong’s or use the Internet to browse videos, with an actual education. I’m just suggesting that a little humility might be in order when virtually everyone with the requisite knowledge and skills disagrees with your opinions.
Actually Steve proskuneó is a Greek word that means to worship. It can also mean to kiss. The context doesn’t allow an interpretation of kissing Jesus. Rather these angels are worshipping Jesus in the same posture you see Muslims worship today. They are at least metaphorically and possibly kissing the ground before Him.
In Hebrew you see In (Gen 18:2) three visitors come to Abraham to announce that he and his wife Sarah will have a child. When Abraham first sees them, he “he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground” (ESV). The phrase “bowed low” is a direct translation of the word shachah (שָׁחָה), pronounced shaw-khaw’. This is because one of those visitors is the God there in physical form.
In other instances, we see this same word translated as worship. For example, this happens in (Gen 22:5) when Abraham is preparing to sacrifice Isaac: “Then Abraham said to his young men, ‘Stay here with the donkey; I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you’” (ESV). Here, shachah is translated as worship.
We see this pattern throughout the Old Testament – sometimes shachah is translated literally as bowing down, while at other points, it is translated as worship.
I don’t expect to convince you that you are wrong. Your comment staring with “If you did some proper research…” tells me that you think you know more. But we have already established that you don’t read Greek nor Hebrew. You don’t cite experts who do and who agree with your opinions. All I can pray for is that the Holy Spirit will use my correction of your twisting of scripture to cause you to drop the attitude of an 18 year old who thinks he knows everything and with a little humility consider the interpretations and opinions of virtually every expert in the original languages for over 2,000 years about what the text says. Of course you will find a few outliers who disagree but your argument isn’t with me, its with a mountain of expert opinions by people who actually read the languages you are positing opinions on.
This is all quite irrelevant. Why? Because Jesus has already informed us of his relationship with his God.
It’s not my job to understand this for you.
It’s not about intelligence or learning, but about being enabled - having the veil of deception removed.
Even though it’s very simply expressed and repeated by the NT authors, most seem unable or unwilling to accept the biblical truth, preferring the complicated and fanciful dogma of the church fathers.
I look forward to them being shown as false prophets in due course.
For some reason your comments don’t show up in my notifications.
The presence of both ὁ κύριος (ho kurios) and ὁ θεός (ho theos) with the possessive pronoun μου (my) indicates direct identification of Jesus as God. There is no grammatical ambiguity—Jesus is explicitly called God.
Of course you find it “irrelevant” that you are pontificating on a subject where you have no training and don’t read the languages. It is like the surgeon who says his not having gone to medical school is irrelevant because he watched some YouTube videos showing surgeries.
When did YHWH say it was fine to worship anyone or anything other than Him? This is one reason that we know YHWH spoke to Moses from the burning bush, when the text calls the speaker “the angel of the Lord.” That “angel” (meaning messenger) demand an act of worship.
As God! We can only worship one GOD. If you did some proper research about worship - proskuneó, you would understand this word correctly. Bowing down or honouring someone is the same word.
But they are not worshiped as God - just as Jesus isn’t.
Especially if God is calling His angels to worship Jesus. As if the angels didn’t know Jesus was God if he was!
If God is anointing God, it’s obvious one is needing anointing, so they are not the coequal God most seem to imagine - just as Jesus said, ‘my God…’. If he has a God and that only God is the Father, then we must have a god being anointed. This god has replaced the present god of this world.
Once again you see that Steve is claiming that the larger context disproves the Trinitarian reading but the exact opposite is true.
If we start with the earlier verses where angels are told to worship the Son. Yet only God is to be worshipped, indicating that the Son is God.
Then still contrasting the Son with the angels, these verses talk about Christ’s throne lasting forever and God anointing Christ above everything.
A clear contrast is seen between verses 6 and 7 and these verses; angels serve God, but Christ is on the throne. These verses are quoted from the Old Testament (Psalm 45:6-7) and refer to the triumph of Jesus as King; Christ's throne and rule will be established forever and ever. But of the Son He Says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom" (v 8).
This is one of the clearest statements of the Son being called God, proof of Christ's divinity and eternal status as the second person of the Trinity. Christ will rule over His kingdom with righteousness.
"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness" (v 9) refers to Christ's obedience on earth which made Him an inheritor of all.
"Therefore God, your God, has anointed You. With the oil of gladness above your companions (v 9)."
Because of Christ's obedience, He is anointed with the oil of gladness above His companions. As we will see throughout Hebrews, Christ's companions are fellow humans who are obedient. These faithful servants will be inheritors with Him, but Jesus is above all.
Christ obtained His inheritance, rule, and joy due to His life of righteousness of obedience; the same will be true of His companions. There is no joy greater than pleasing our Creator. The Greek word for companions is "metochous," from the root word "metochos." "Metochos" is an important word in Hebrews, used throughout (Hebrews 3:1, 3:14, 6:4). It means to be a participator, a sharer, or a business partner; the companions of Christ are those who share in His reward because of faithful obedience to Him in this life. If we share in His walk of obedience, then He will reward us by sharing with us His inheritance (the earth).
No one is worshipping Jesus because he’s God. You are inferring this. Many people are worshipped in scripture but not because they are God.
I pointed out his reign is from a time going forward. Did you read the post or just smash out a defensive reply based on conjecture and dogma?
Logic is not present in your defence, how is Jesus God if he has the same God we all do. You live in a world of contradiction of tradition’s making and seem unable to recognise the false doctrine you defend.
The doctrine of the perspicuity of scripture doesn’t mean that everything in scripture is easy to understand. Even the Apostle
Peter says of Paul’s writings that some if the things are hard to understand.
The main things in scripture, those things needed for salvation are simple and plain so that even s child can understand that a holy God exists, we are sinners unworthy to face such a holy God and therefore need a Savior who can cover us with His righteousness.
I take the promise from Jesus to the thief on the cross that “today you will be with me in paradise” as saying that he will be saved. I can show from their short exchange that the thief believed in the Jewish God, YHWH. He knew he was a sinner in need of a Savior. He expressed faith that Jesus was that Savior, the Son of God, who could intervene on his behalf. But I can’t show that the thief knew anything about the virgin birth, the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union or a host of other doctrines but his ignorance doesn’t make those doctrines incorrect.
Neither does your lack of education in theology, hermeneutics and church history make the doctrines you oppose incorrect. But that lack of education is very relevant when you are making claims about what a Greek or Hebrew word means in context (which would require an understanding of Greek and Hebrew grammar).
Strong’s Concordance is a good entry level took but don’t confuse being able to read Strong’s or use the Internet to browse videos, with an actual education. I’m just suggesting that a little humility might be in order when virtually everyone with the requisite knowledge and skills disagrees with your opinions.
Actually Steve proskuneó is a Greek word that means to worship. It can also mean to kiss. The context doesn’t allow an interpretation of kissing Jesus. Rather these angels are worshipping Jesus in the same posture you see Muslims worship today. They are at least metaphorically and possibly kissing the ground before Him.
In Hebrew you see In (Gen 18:2) three visitors come to Abraham to announce that he and his wife Sarah will have a child. When Abraham first sees them, he “he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground” (ESV). The phrase “bowed low” is a direct translation of the word shachah (שָׁחָה), pronounced shaw-khaw’. This is because one of those visitors is the God there in physical form.
In other instances, we see this same word translated as worship. For example, this happens in (Gen 22:5) when Abraham is preparing to sacrifice Isaac: “Then Abraham said to his young men, ‘Stay here with the donkey; I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you’” (ESV). Here, shachah is translated as worship.
We see this pattern throughout the Old Testament – sometimes shachah is translated literally as bowing down, while at other points, it is translated as worship.
I don’t expect to convince you that you are wrong. Your comment staring with “If you did some proper research…” tells me that you think you know more. But we have already established that you don’t read Greek nor Hebrew. You don’t cite experts who do and who agree with your opinions. All I can pray for is that the Holy Spirit will use my correction of your twisting of scripture to cause you to drop the attitude of an 18 year old who thinks he knows everything and with a little humility consider the interpretations and opinions of virtually every expert in the original languages for over 2,000 years about what the text says. Of course you will find a few outliers who disagree but your argument isn’t with me, its with a mountain of expert opinions by people who actually read the languages you are positing opinions on.
This is all quite irrelevant. Why? Because Jesus has already informed us of his relationship with his God.
It’s not my job to understand this for you.
It’s not about intelligence or learning, but about being enabled - having the veil of deception removed.
Even though it’s very simply expressed and repeated by the NT authors, most seem unable or unwilling to accept the biblical truth, preferring the complicated and fanciful dogma of the church fathers.
I look forward to them being shown as false prophets in due course.
For some reason your comments don’t show up in my notifications.
John 20:28 (ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου)
Thomas directly calls Jesus "My Lord and My God!"
The presence of both ὁ κύριος (ho kurios) and ὁ θεός (ho theos) with the possessive pronoun μου (my) indicates direct identification of Jesus as God. There is no grammatical ambiguity—Jesus is explicitly called God.
Of course you find it “irrelevant” that you are pontificating on a subject where you have no training and don’t read the languages. It is like the surgeon who says his not having gone to medical school is irrelevant because he watched some YouTube videos showing surgeries.
We don’t need to be experts - we just need to believe the easy bits. The Bible is written for dummies not lofty super nerds.
What is so hard to just accept what Jesus said?
Really, it’s that simple!
Very strange that people who praise their Lord don’t believe most of he said.
When did YHWH say it was fine to worship anyone or anything other than Him? This is one reason that we know YHWH spoke to Moses from the burning bush, when the text calls the speaker “the angel of the Lord.” That “angel” (meaning messenger) demand an act of worship.
As God! We can only worship one GOD. If you did some proper research about worship - proskuneó, you would understand this word correctly. Bowing down or honouring someone is the same word.
But they are not worshiped as God - just as Jesus isn’t.
Especially if God is calling His angels to worship Jesus. As if the angels didn’t know Jesus was God if he was!
If God is anointing God, it’s obvious one is needing anointing, so they are not the coequal God most seem to imagine - just as Jesus said, ‘my God…’. If he has a God and that only God is the Father, then we must have a god being anointed. This god has replaced the present god of this world.